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Fans make the show Fan input makes a show

#1 User is offline   Captain Taurus Icon

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 09:35 AM

Well we have had lots of discussion so far about Blood and Chrome but the one thing we have not discussed is how to make it a success. Just like with Star Trek, the writers, producers and directors are listening to fan input to conceive a script that will be a huge success. Likewise, if Blood and Chrome is given the same opportunity, we have a chance to provide our input, give our advice and hopefully watch it come to fruition in a concept that is appealing to everyone. I strongly believe that Blood and Chrome will be a success based on fan input not by its on creation.
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#2 User is offline   p0is0n0us Icon

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 02:48 PM

How do you define success? Syfy would define success and viewers in front of a TV giving them ratings. This will of course motivate them to make more episodes. As a viewer I would define success as a strong story with believable actors telling it. Caprica failed to get viewers and the plot was all over the place, which lead to its downfall. I would like to be pleasantly suprised with B+C and proved wrong with all the negativity I feel towards it. The show has two major flaws for me from the get go.

1. The kid is not Adama, looks NOTHING like him. I'm gonna give him a chance but he needs to do something pretty amazing for me to be comfortable with him in the role.

2. The whole thing is blue screen, I've been watching "V" and the blue screen stuff just looks bad, again they need to do something pretty cool for me not to notice this.
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Posted 25 May 2011 - 04:10 PM

View Postp0is0n0us, on 25 May 2011 - 02:48 PM, said:

How do you define success? Syfy would define success and viewers in front of a TV giving them ratings. This will of course motivate them to make more episodes. As a viewer I would define success as a strong story with believable actors telling it. Caprica failed to get viewers and the plot was all over the place, which lead to its downfall. I would like to be pleasantly suprised with B+C and proved wrong with all the negativity I feel towards it. The show has two major flaws for me from the get go.

1. The kid is not Adama, looks NOTHING like him. I'm gonna give him a chance but he needs to do something pretty amazing for me to be comfortable with him in the role.

2. The whole thing is blue screen, I've been watching "V" and the blue screen stuff just looks bad, again they need to do something pretty cool for me not to notice this.

Ditto what P's said.... my ambivalence about B&C is only from what I've seen so far; nothing, and I mean NOTHING I've seen has really got me pumped yet.
The casting looks really bad (overuse of Caprica and BSG actors is charitable, but it also becomes a game of "Where's Waldo?" and pops me out of the show sometimes).
And P perfectly summed up my feelings on the 'new' skinny metrosexual Adama. It sucks serious b@lls, because (having just rewatched Razor only a week or so ago), they HAD the perfect young Adama right in their frakking hands (with Nico Cortez)!!! He looked the part, sounded the part and had the 'gravitas.'
My prediction? They will not capture lightning in the bottle again...
:cylonnono:

Now why am I harping so much on the actors/casting? Because (for me) that's the ANCHOR of the show. The characters. Seriously.
Everything else is just green screen window dressing. The FX and the battles are interesting only when characters we're invested in and care about are in jeopardy; otherwise it's just a mindless video game that I couldn't give two fraks about...

Which brings me to the green screen sets. Judging by the 'state of the art' in "V"? They're not ready to do 'action shows' in total green screen yet. "V"'s phony sets were (right to the end) one of my few gripes about the show that I just couldn't make peace with. It's like the show had two worlds; the 'Vancouver-for-NY' world where 'real' people lived and the 'phoney-baloney' world the Visitors lived in. If B&C goes that route? It will put a serious stink on the proceedings....
:cylonnono:

To the producers I say this; don't ASSUME fan loyalty. You need to create a product WORTHY of fan loyalty. Not ALL of us come running when you ring the dinner bell.
:cylonnono:
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Posted 31 May 2011 - 08:56 PM

View Postp0is0n0us, on 25 May 2011 - 02:48 PM, said:

How do you define success? Syfy would define success and viewers in front of a TV giving them ratings. This will of course motivate them to make more episodes. As a viewer I would define success as a strong story with believable actors telling it. Caprica failed to get viewers and the plot was all over the place, which lead to its downfall. I would like to be pleasantly suprised with B+C and proved wrong with all the negativity I feel towards it. The show has two major flaws for me from the get go.

1. The kid is not Adama, looks NOTHING like him. I'm gonna give him a chance but he needs to do something pretty amazing for me to be comfortable with him in the role.

2. The whole thing is blue screen, I've been watching "V" and the blue screen stuff just looks bad, again they need to do something pretty cool for me not to notice this.



1. I define success as something similar to Galactica only better. A show lasting several seasons with good ratings. Something that will not cause concern for cancellation. Of course a strong story and strong acting.
2. Caprica didn't last long enough for fan input, which is the point of this posting. About FAN INFLUENCE to help generate interest in the show. Just like Star Trek had a strong characters, and plot, it also had a strong fan base writing in and making recommendations and writing episodes for the show.
3. I agree with your assessment of Adama. Very similar to my original reaction to Katee as Starbuck. Hated the idea of her being a woman and didn't care much for her in the beginning and then something happened...I liked her! Now I can't imagine anyone else being in that role but Katee.
4. I am not very familiar with the difference between blue screen and green screen, but I know Star Wars was all done in Blue Screen and looks pretty awesome. The effects for V were cheap at best nothing more than a glorified video game graphics. If they go with the same special effects for Galactica as they will for Blood and Chrome then they have nothing to worry about.

Give your input Poisonous...can't make a show a success if you keep your mouth shut.

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#5 User is offline   Captain Taurus Icon

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 09:03 PM

View Postobsolete toaster, on 25 May 2011 - 04:10 PM, said:

Ditto what P's said.... my ambivalence about B&C is only from what I've seen so far; nothing, and I mean NOTHING I've seen has really got me pumped yet.
The casting looks really bad (overuse of Caprica and BSG actors is charitable, but it also becomes a game of "Where's Waldo?" and pops me out of the show sometimes).
And P perfectly summed up my feelings on the 'new' skinny metrosexual Adama. It sucks serious b@lls, because (having just rewatched Razor only a week or so ago), they HAD the perfect young Adama right in their frakking hands (with Nico Cortez)!!! He looked the part, sounded the part and had the 'gravitas.'
My prediction? They will not capture lightning in the bottle again...
:cylonnono:

Now why am I harping so much on the actors/casting? Because (for me) that's the ANCHOR of the show. The characters. Seriously.
Everything else is just green screen window dressing. The FX and the battles are interesting only when characters we're invested in and care about are in jeopardy; otherwise it's just a mindless video game that I couldn't give two fraks about...

Which brings me to the green screen sets. Judging by the 'state of the art' in "V"? They're not ready to do 'action shows' in total green screen yet. "V"'s phony sets were (right to the end) one of my few gripes about the show that I just couldn't make peace with. It's like the show had two worlds; the 'Vancouver-for-NY' world where 'real' people lived and the 'phoney-baloney' world the Visitors lived in. If B&C goes that route? It will put a serious stink on the proceedings....
:cylonnono:

To the producers I say this; don't ASSUME fan loyalty. You need to create a product WORTHY of fan loyalty. Not ALL of us come running when you ring the dinner bell.
:cylonnono:



Well all this feedback is interesting as usual, Toaster but the point of this thread is about how WE the FANS can help make the show interesting and successful. This feedback is great and perhaps they might resign Nico Cortez as Adama but there could be several reasons why they didn't resign him. So we have to work with what we have.

I agree with you whole-heartedly that they need to create a WORTHY PRODUCT but sometimes hollywood is blind to their own creations and with FAN INPUT this could be a giant success and they might capture lightning TWICE with the help of the fans not just watching but writing in to the producers and writers and give INPUT.

Like you said, "You need to create a product WORTHY of fan loyalty. Not ALL of us come running when you ring the dinner bell." How true!

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 10:12 PM

Those are my suggestions; build REAL, physical sets (sorry to disagree over Star Wars; the original trilogy looked good as it was shot on REAL sets... the prequels were largely green-screened and they had a 'phony, cartoony' quality to them IMO). Especially since we've already seen the ol' G as real sets and I have a hard time believing green screen scans are going to look as good.

And from the casting and their approach to the show make me concerned; the production art showing Cylon 'snow snakes' showed me where their heads are (making BSG toys and new special effects that have NO relevance to CW1), and it kind of scares me that they are really messing with what made BSG so good in the first place ("it's the characters!"). I really DO want a good product. But seriously? What I've seen so far is not inspiring.

As for Katee? True; there was a tremendous backlash in the fan community, but remember... she was NOT playing Dirk's character. She was showing a whole new interpretation of Starbuck only loosely related to the Benedict original. This skinny, metro "Husker" was first, already brilliantly cast in "Razor" (no need for a recasting), and two, he is not supposed to be playing an 'all-new' Husker. Merely a younger version of the SAME character we saw in BSG. Not quite the same, IMO. :cylonnono:

If the producers are listening? I would reiterate; this story would be best served as a miniseries and not a full series. A four night, BSG event! Now THAT would stoke me big time! I worry that with another failed series (ala Caprica) they are going to pump the well dry; we already have hints and flashbacks of what happened with CW1, and one lesson that should've been learned from the Star Wars prequels is that sometimes not knowing every little detail of what came before actually increases the mystique... in other words; always leave 'em wanting more! ;)
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Posted 12 June 2011 - 03:15 AM

I havent really read/seen much about this to be really honest. Of course I am interested but I prefer going into it 'blank'. This way I will not be dissapointed (im sorry but caprica dissapointed me).
I know they can make a good BSGlike story without the actual power of the actors. I mean I really enjoyed Huskers parts from Razor. That guy was really good.
Of course for me personally it would be awsome if young Adama runs into cadet Cain somewhere along the series XD (yes I've read these fanfics, yes I think they are awsome :P).
BUT, I guess well have to see and wait...
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Posted 12 June 2011 - 11:32 PM

View PostNanouk, on 12 June 2011 - 03:15 AM, said:

I havent really read/seen much about this to be really honest. Of course I am interested but I prefer going into it 'blank'. This way I will not be dissapointed (im sorry but caprica dissapointed me).
I know they can make a good BSGlike story without the actual power of the actors. I mean I really enjoyed Huskers parts from Razor. That guy was really good.
Of course for me personally it would be awsome if young Adama runs into cadet Cain somewhere along the series XD (yes I've read these fanfics, yes I think they are awsome :P).
BUT, I guess well have to see and wait...


Well the point of the thread is to encourage everyone to make their suggestions to the producers and directors and perhaps cast members as to what would make the show better or more successful, so that we don't have another Caprica on our hands where it is cancelled due to poor ratings.
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Posted 13 June 2011 - 12:09 AM

View PostCaptain Taurus, on 12 June 2011 - 11:32 PM, said:

Well the point of the thread is to encourage everyone to make their suggestions to the producers and directors and perhaps cast members as to what would make the show better or more successful, so that we don't have another Caprica on our hands where it is cancelled due to poor ratings.

Two words that'd make it better; MINI SERIES.

I don't think we need to see Cylon War 1 stretched across 4 long years (it was already partially seen in "Razor" flashbacks; even the ending of it) .
We know the outcome; we know what follows. We even know the ultimate fates of some of the characters (Adama makes it to Earth, etc).
What's the point of dragging it out across 4 years? The story could be much better served as a mini BSG 'event'; a brief detour from the 'real' story
of BSG and nothing more. Again, look what happened to the Clone Wars of Star Wars. When I was a kid I was so curious to see what happened when
Luke made that first cryptic reference to them in Star Wars (1977). Now? It was just a bunch of dull, overproduced, CGI eye candy bulls**t.
In my mind's eye, it was far cooler... as imagination invariably IS.

I'm afraid the 'mystique' of Cylon War 1 will follow a similar path; we will see much more of it than we need and ultimately the mystery will be destroyed. :cylonnono:
So, my input to the powers that be? Shorter is better. Oh, and please recast Nico Cortez back into the role of young Adama while you're at it... ;)

PS: And make some real interior sets of the Galactica, too. None of this "V"-style virtual set crap; the technology is just NOT there yet. :cylonnono:
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#10 User is offline   Captain Taurus Icon

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 03:24 PM

View Postobsolete toaster, on 13 June 2011 - 12:09 AM, said:

Two words that'd make it better; MINI SERIES.

I don't think we need to see Cylon War 1 stretched across 4 long years (it was already partially seen in "Razor" flashbacks; even the ending of it) .
We know the outcome; we know what follows. We even know the ultimate fates of some of the characters (Adama makes it to Earth, etc).
What's the point of dragging it out across 4 years? The story could be much better served as a mini BSG 'event'; a brief detour from the 'real' story
of BSG and nothing more. Again, look what happened to the Clone Wars of Star Wars. When I was a kid I was so curious to see what happened when
Luke made that first cryptic reference to them in Star Wars (1977). Now? It was just a bunch of dull, overproduced, CGI eye candy bulls**t.
In my mind's eye, it was far cooler... as imagination invariably IS.

I'm afraid the 'mystique' of Cylon War 1 will follow a similar path; we will see much more of it than we need and ultimately the mystery will be destroyed. :cylonnono:
So, my input to the powers that be? Shorter is better. Oh, and please recast Nico Cortez back into the role of young Adama while you're at it... ;)

PS: And make some real interior sets of the Galactica, too. None of this "V"-style virtual set crap; the technology is just NOT there yet. :cylonnono:


I sort of understand your point of view my old friend about doing a mini-series rather than a full TV series. I think rather than a pilot that a mini-series would be justified to see how it does in the ratings then initiate a full tv series. I think there are many stories about war. I remember my father giving me the journal of a confederate soldier and the stories that came out of that journal would embarrass the mini series North and South. I think with enough creative thinking involved and enough fan input that they can quickly make changes to the direction that they are going in and salvage the franchise and make Blood & Chrome more successful than Battlestar Galactica. There would be no shame on the cast of BSG because in their own right they made a show that was worthy of full success, worthy of an ending episode and worthy of being hailed by the UN as a show for international peace and harmony. Blood and Chrome can achieve more provided that it has the right writers and the right direction. Fans can often be an asset in events such as this.
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Posted 14 June 2011 - 09:47 AM

I echo OT's sentiments about the mini-series. There simply isn't enough material for a full series here.
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Posted 14 June 2011 - 01:25 PM

Yeah I agree that it makes more sense. Better to have 3 hours of full out epic. Than 12 episodes that drag themselves out untill it eventually dies out.
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Posted 14 June 2011 - 01:54 PM

I agree with OT, you need real sets, if everything is going to be green/blue screen then it wont look real.

As I mentioned before there are two types of sucess that I can see. There is the viewing success and the creative success, most of the time do not go hand in hand. If B&C has good ratings then I have NO DOUBT what so ever that they will extend it and milk it for everything they can.

Any one rememeber the movie "Wing Commander" back in the 90's based on the video game series? In the game Mark Hamill plays the lead (I forget the name) but in the movie its a very young Freddie Prince Junior. This is how I kind of feel about B&C......casting is wrong.

So to reiterate my points to make B&C a success.

1. Get rid of the kid and preferably get Nico back.
2. Stop recycling actors, yes its good that syfy is loyal to it's cast but I don't want to see the same person popping up in different shows playing different characters.
3. No green/blue screen sets, use real sets.
4. Learn from the failure of Caprica and keep a consistant story line instead of one that jumps all over the place.
5. Make the story the right length and once it's told don't drag it on.
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Posted 14 June 2011 - 04:06 PM

View Postp0is0n0us, on 14 June 2011 - 01:54 PM, said:

I agree with OT, you need real sets, if everything is going to be green/blue screen then it wont look real.

As I mentioned before there are two types of sucess that I can see. There is the viewing success and the creative success, most of the time do not go hand in hand. If B&C has good ratings then I have NO DOUBT what so ever that they will extend it and milk it for everything they can.

Any one rememeber the movie "Wing Commander" back in the 90's based on the video game series? In the game Mark Hamill plays the lead (I forget the name) but in the movie its a very young Freddie Prince Junior. This is how I kind of feel about B&C......casting is wrong.

So to reiterate my points to make B&C a success.

1. Get rid of the kid and preferably get Nico back.
2. Stop recycling actors, yes its good that syfy is loyal to it's cast but I don't want to see the same person popping up in different shows playing different characters.
3. No green/blue screen sets, use real sets.
4. Learn from the failure of Caprica and keep a consistant story line instead of one that jumps all over the place.
5. Make the story the right length and once it's told don't drag it on.


Preach on, brother P0is0n0us.... :cylonclap: :innocent: :bowdown:

That's not complaining, by the way; those are constructive suggestions on how to make B&C the best it can be. It's not fanboy b!tching; it's fan feedback.
And if the thread is about fan feedback to make the show better, then these are all viable suggestions that the powers that be would be wise to take to heart...
As for making the show a success? I also agree with the above posts; success is manifold (and often contradictory). I'd rather opt for a brilliant miniseries (both creatively and in ratings) that only ran for a few nights than a several year-long show that misses the mark through bad creative decisions and winds up not finishing the story (I'm looking at you, Caprica... although in fairness, Caprica's last five episodes got to the point rather well, even if the rest of the show was a meandering train wreck).
And I really DON'T believe Cylon War 1 has the potential for more than a year or two of stories; we've already seen the end of it, for gods' sake (with the Razor flashbacks on the extended edition). And frankly when you've already SEEN the frakkin' colonial apocalypse and exodus 40 years later, how interesting can CW1 really be?
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Posted 17 June 2011 - 09:17 AM

View Postp0is0n0us, on 14 June 2011 - 01:54 PM, said:

1. Get rid of the kid and preferably get Nico back.
2. Stop recycling actors, yes its good that syfy is loyal to it's cast but I don't want to see the same person popping up in different shows playing different characters.
3. No green/blue screen sets, use real sets.
4. Learn from the failure of Caprica and keep a consistant story line instead of one that jumps all over the place.
5. Make the story the right length and once it's told don't drag it on.


Preach it, brother! :clap:

To be fair, I'm not really against the idea of virtual sets, but then I've grown up video games, so I'm used to suspending my disbelief for artificial realities. I can sorta see how it might bother some people.
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Posted 17 June 2011 - 02:03 PM

View Postensign edwards, on 17 June 2011 - 09:17 AM, said:

Preach it, brother! :clap:

To be fair, I'm not really against the idea of virtual sets, but then I've grown up video games, so I'm used to suspending my disbelief for artificial realities. I can sorta see how it might bother some people.

It bothers me for two reasons:

* I don't think the tech is quite there yet; "V" and the Star Wars prequels digital sets always looked a bit 'cartoon-ish' for me. Some of my favorite scenes in Star Wars (1977) were not always the big, matte-painting backdrop 'epic' scenes, but the more intimate moments; for example, Luke and his family having dinner together on this 'alien' yet vaguely familiar planet. It was a dinner table with a view of the patio (or whatever that was behind the dining area) with real Tunisian sunlight coming in. Those kinds of moments made the movie REAL to me; I didn't have to suspend disbelief; they were there; right down to the blue milk. Virtual sets NEVER give me that same impact, no matter how well-rendered they are. I'd take a dirty, slightly-altered Tunisian hole in the wall locale over a sumptuous, CGI-rendered, glittery palace ANY day of the week....
Posted Image Real, physical locale vs.
Posted Image Phony-baloney VR set



* BSG was always a show that celebrated it's gritty, hand-held, tactile reality; big, clunky, familiar-looking props, dirty walls, etc. I do not relish the idea of the show getting the extra sheen layer virtual sets tend to have (and no matter how good they get at digital compositing, people in those sets always have a 'green-screen' vibe about them). I know BSG famously used digital set extensions (the back walls of the hangar deck, the engine room in season 4, etc), but you never saw 'real' actors interacting in those areas, thus preserving the integrity of those scenes. BSG B&C will lose it's parent show's gritty, immediate, cinema-verite reality by caving in to the impulse to play it cheap by not rebuilding the old sets (at least CIC and one corridor, come on...). I remember G1980 had a similar problem; they'd already struck most of the sets when G1980 went into production so whenever they had to show the bridge, they'd only show a tiny corner of it (with season 1 stock footage for the master shot). And the tiny corner would not match the master shot AT ALL (it'd be a small wall with a couple of TV monitors and a chair or two).
Talk about phoning it in....

I'm not saying all VR sets suck, but that they would suck for THIS kind of show (a gritty, handheld war show).
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Posted 18 June 2011 - 05:52 PM

I think a lot of people have vocalized real issues and real legitimate complaints as to why certain things are not going to work. Now focus that energy and write to Universal Studios and I am sure you will get a response.
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Posted 19 June 2011 - 09:20 PM

View PostCaptain Taurus, on 18 June 2011 - 05:52 PM, said:

I think a lot of people have vocalized real issues and real legitimate complaints as to why certain things are not going to work. Now focus that energy and write to Universal Studios and I am sure you will get a response.

They'll reply with a form letter with three words; Frak Off Fanboy! :lol:
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Posted 20 June 2011 - 09:36 AM

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I'm not saying all VR sets suck, but that they would suck for THIS kind of show (a gritty, handheld war show).


That's a good point. Even though I have nothing against virtual sets generally speaking, it may not work for the gritty tone B&C will supposedly be going for.

View Postobsolete toaster, on 19 June 2011 - 09:20 PM, said:

They'll reply with a form letter with three words; Frak Off Fanboy! :lol:


QFT.
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Posted 20 June 2011 - 05:53 PM

View Postobsolete toaster, on 19 June 2011 - 09:20 PM, said:

They'll reply with a form letter with three words; Frak Off Fanboy! :lol:


Why don't you give it a try before you give up so quickly.
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