[obsolete toaster]

Now that Caprica is more or less done; the final episodes have aired in Canada, spoilers have been all over Youtube, and the DVDs have just had their North American release date yesterday (I'm picking mine up after Christmas... I'm a little light on disposable fundage at the moment. ), I wanted to start this (potential SPOILER) thread about what we all thought were the series' best and worst attributes.
And please; let's NOT attack anyone's viewpoints, OK?
If you genuinely disagree, then disagree in a civil manner (and please back up your disagreements with some kind of counterpoint, if possible).

I'll kick things off (and I'm keeping the format nice and loose):
THINGS I LIKED ABOUT CAPRICA:

* The quality of the performances; particularly Magda Apanowicz' "Lacey" and Eric Stoltz' "Daniel Graystone"; IMO, easily the best performances of an already elite calibre cast.

* Serge; a cute (if underused) idea/character.

* The visuals; really effective in creating a world like ours but just different enough to feel 'elsewhere.' Also loved the "Gattaca-esque" production design.
Also liked the technology... a neat blend of '40s, '70s and modern (VHS VCRs and flat screen TVs, clunky phones, cell phones, old cars and androids). It's a lot like our own world today, where we see a similar blend of old and new tech working side-by-side. Funky!

* Seeing the early Cylons kick some a$$! Both in the nightclub and in the stadium at the end. Pretty frakking cool!

* Sam Adama. A hell of an interesting character. Wished he had more to do in the second half; he was this franchise's "Sonny Corleone." Great performance, too (kudos to Sasha Roiz)!
When he is onscreen, he is very difficult to ignore.

THINGS I DIDN'T LIKE ABOUT CAPRICA:

* The cheesy main title sequence; too 'green-screeny' and artificial. The character poses were too 'cover-of-Vogue' as well for my taste.

* Pretty much ALL the crap about Tamara's trials and tribulations in V-world; a boring, sideways-moving, waste of my life. Pointless, plodding hoop-jumping. Honestly, most of this stuff could've been flushed down the editing bay toilet. Not to mention the Tamara-A actress (name escapes me) was not very good either.

* The killer slow pacing of the show in general;
waaaayy too much smoking, crying on couches, and endless tinkering with the U-87. I like good drama; especially when it serves a purpose. A lot of this stuff was tiresome and redundant. It is, in a large part, responsible for the show's low numbers and failure to keep the BSG faithful, IMO. I remember a scene in BSG season two when Kara goes back to retrieve the arrow and her and Helo are just 'sharing a quiet moment' in her abandoned apartment. That 'rest' from the action felt earned. In Caprica, meandering about was a way of life!

* The utter, tragic WASTE of the Joseph Adama character; when the show began I fully expected a fine, immensely talented actor such as Esai Morales (whom I'm seen play everything from a Chicano gang banger, to a scientist, to an Iranian student) would be the beating heart of the show. But it seems that, like his 'grandson' Lee, the writers just didn't know what the hell to do with him sometimes. And they also made his brother Sam a much more interesting character.

* The bait and switch with young "Willie" (imposter) Adama. While it does explain some minor inconsistencies of age and eye color (future Bill Adama's eyes are blue), it is still a dramatic cheat, in my opinion. Plain and simple. Especially when the writers and producers were quoted at the series' beginning as saying his character was to be the only direct 'living link' to the future BSG universe (although I still think the 'old man' hybrid we see in Razor is what becomes of Daniel Greystone; IMO, that'd be a perfect ending for a man obsessed with living, breathing technology. And it'd also explain why so many old school Cylons were guarding him with their lives... he is their 'father' so to speak).

* Sister Clarice and the whole ongoing STO mythology. It started out good, but became a bunch of spoiled white kids who wanted to give terrorism a try. And we already have seen that Caprica is a pluralistic culture (with rampant secularism, and places like 'little Tauron,' etc; rather like the little Italys, Russias and little Tokyos of the major North American cities today). It's not as if the monotheists were being hunted and slaughtered like the European Jews in WW2 (or arguably the Palestinians of Israel today). They had NO CAUSE to be terrorists; I find their quest stupid and unbelievable.
At least the monotheistic Cylons were involved in a life and death struggle with the colonials.
Besides, I prefer to think that the Cylons found 'the one, true God' on their own (after CW1).
And Paula Walker's overwrought, moustache-twirling as Clarice was too over-the-top to be believable.


There, I've thrown down MY feelings about Caprica as a whole. Anyone else??

[ensign edwards]

The best:

-The pilot. Say what you will about the rest of the series, I still say the pilot was flawless. A wonderfully deep and thought-provoking piece rich with emotion and intellectual stimulation. I can find no fault with any part of it.

-Zoe. A fantastic character played by a fantastic actress. She was the heart of the show, and one of the main things that kept me watching week after week.

-Frankly, the whole cast was pretty excellent. From an acting perspective, I can't really find a fault with this show.

The worst:

-Tamara. I still think the V-world was an essential part of Caprica's theme, but Tamara's adventures therein were an utter waste of time. I'm still scratching my head over the scene where she shot Joseph. Drama for drama's sake and an anticlimax. A rare and impressive combination.

-All the other Adamas except Sam. I maintain that this family is what sunk the show. They ultimately had little or no relevance to, well, anything. If the show hadn't wasted time on them, they could have advanced the other plots more quickly, making the show less slow-paced, and everything would have gone much better. Sam is, of course, the exception, but he didn't need to be an Adama. Just make him a gangster the Greystones got mixed up with.

[obsolete toaster]

Agreed with your opinion on Zoe (real or A version); Alessandra Torressani is cute as a button, and one hell of an actress too. She was this show's Starbuck.
Although I still think Madga Apanowicz was allowed to portray much more subtle shading as an actress.

And I also agreed with you about the pilot; a near-perfect mix of "Gattaca," "Godfather" and "A.I." That's two of my favorite movies covered, anyway (Gattaca and Godfather).

Another thing I disliked about the show? Barnabas; a useless attempt to shoehorn in a favorite actor from "Buffy" (actor James Marsters played "Spike" on Buffy/Angel; where he was delightful).
On this show? His character was just a mean bastard with no color or shadings whatsoever. Useless.

His 'mentor' role for Lacy should've been performed by Sister Clarice (who could've exited earlier on, and the show would've been better served for it).

[dsgtdave]

The best things about the show:

- The rich colors of Caprica and how they filmed it. The cinematography was great.

- The scoring, especially from the pilot.

- Tomas Vergis. His character was engaging and though provoking all the way through his death.

- I liked the potential of the show and most of 1.0

The worst things about the show:

- The way they misused Amanda Graystone. Paula Malcomson is a fabulous actress and it is just a disgrace the way they put her character in neutral for most of the season.

- The Adamas as a whole. The show did not need them they way they were written in. I agree that Tamara was just not needed, but then again neither was Joseph. I am ok with the way they did Willie and Bill though.

- The multiple arcs that they put forward and then couldn't deliver on. No wonder nobody liked any of the characters. How were we supposed to develop and grow with them when they jumped around with no consistency?

- The way Clarice developed. It was too rushed and too fantastic for me that she went from a low level STO idealist to a killing zealot.

- The fact that it was canceled without realizing its own potential.

- To OT's point about Barnabus, I totally agree. Only there to draw in viewers and in the end not relevant to the overall story.

[obsolete toaster]

Another character I liked was bombing/STO investigator agent Durham (Brian Markinson). I found over time, he was the only real moral compass on the show.
And when you think how really hollow and ultimately stupid the monotheist 'cause' was (it wasn't like they were fighting for their lives or anything), his vendetta against them felt more and more justified.


And again, back to the monotheistic 'cause', if they can just jump to Gemenon to escape perceived religious persecution on Caprica (though I see no evidence of that), then why the frak do they have to blow s**t up anyway?? Again, we see evidence that Caprica is a pluralistic society (as well as a mildly secular one as well); it's not as though the monotheists are being slaughtered in their sleep or anything.

I guess I am just hardwired not to understand religious fanaticism.
I can understand someone's desire to believe they are 'connected' to something greater than they are, but arguing to the death over whose image of the afterlife is 'correct' is as stupid as killing someone because they have a different favorite color than yourself.
You can't prove it right or wrong either way, so let it go!

[ensign edwards]

I agree the STO was unjustified in their actions, but that's not entirely unrealistic. Osama Bin Laden comes from a wealthy and powerful family. He could have lived his life in comfort if he'd wanted to. He's just crazy enough that he decided he'd rather spend his life living in caves and blowing up innocent people for no good reason.

[dsgtdave]

obsolete toaster, on 25 December 2010 - 10:04 AM, said:

Another character I liked was bombing/STO investigator agent Durham (Brian Markinson). I found over time, he was the only real moral compass on the show.

I agree. He was good throughout. Dirteaters was a good epsiode and he shined in it for the parts he was in.

Dirteaters. Another thing I enjoyed about the show. The flashbacks between the present and Tauron 30 years prior was awesome. We also got to see the lighter

[obsolete toaster]

ensign edwards, on 25 December 2010 - 11:42 AM, said:

I agree the STO was unjustified in their actions, but that's not entirely unrealistic. Osama Bin Laden comes from a wealthy and powerful family. He could have lived his life in comfort if he'd wanted to. He's just crazy enough that he decided he'd rather spend his life living in caves and blowing up innocent people for no good reason.

Yes, Osama bin Laden is rich, but his followers are all dirt poor and weak-minded rural folk who have nothing to live for (they are dying for plastic keys to "Paradise"; these 'martyr keys' are cheap plastic keys that are their 'guarantee' that if they kill themselves they will go to a divine afterlife with multiple virgins lining up for them. It's really pathetic).
Bin Laden's motive is the same as any cultist's; personal power (not to mention control of other nations' energy interests; much like the major powers, to be honest).

His followers are dirt-poor and have nothing to lose. The wealthy powers behind Al Qaeda are NOT the ones strapping bombs to their chests.
Doesn't quite look like the same situation with the STO (while Lacy is admittedly not rich, she's not any worse off than many others who DON'T blow s**t up).
I think the producers were trying to find a 'terrorist analogy' for western audiences that would hit close to home, but IMO they made their point FAR more effectively with the "Occupation" arc of BSG's 4th season (those suicide bombers had their backs really against the wall; they were TRULY desperate).

[dsgtdave]

The Heaveans Will Rise gives a shout out to a Doctor Cottle. Building the sea ship with Willie and Evelyn (an obvious nod to Bill). Small subtle ties to BSG do exist in Caprica.

Side Note: The last five episodes were good.

[ensign edwards]

Quote

Dirteaters. Another thing I enjoyed about the show. The flashbacks between the present and Tauron 30 years prior was awesome. We also got to see the lighter

Funny you say that. I think those flashbacks were actually one of the low points of the show. Another instance of the Adamas adding nothing to the overall plot.

[dsgtdave]

Putting it into context for the imminent battle within the Hathala I can see why they did it. It conveyed a sense of brotherhood and loyalty to one another. Did it help explain their purpose in Caprica? No. I had no problems with it.

[obsolete toaster]

dsgtdave, on 28 December 2010 - 05:16 PM, said:

Putting it into context for the imminent battle within the Hathala I can see why they did it. It conveyed a sense of brotherhood and loyalty to one another. Did it help explain their purpose in Caprica? No. I had no problems with it.

The thing is, I really like the actors who play the Adama boys. Morales and Roiz are great.
They (the creators of the show) had the brilliant idea of bringing the Adamas in as a "Godfather" type subplot, but then not knowing what to do with them once they had them.
I thought the story was supposed to be this ongoing rivalry between the Adama/Greystone families (ala "Dallas" or "Dynasty") but we see nothing of that.
Proof positive that the show went before the cameras without a plan.

Again, there were similar issues with Lee Adama, when he was out of his viper cockpit; the writers had him all over the place.

[dsgtdave]

The lack of direction doesn't take away from the quality of this particular episode in my opinion. I guess I can liken it to Star Trek in some ways. Not every episode was integral to an overall arc but still good in their own respect.

[obsolete toaster]

dsgtdave, on 30 December 2010 - 07:33 PM, said:

The lack of direction doesn't take away from the quality of this particular episode in my opinion. I guess I can liken it to Star Trek in some ways. Not every episode was integral to an overall arc but still good in their own respect.

Get paid this Friday; hope to have Caprica season 1.5 in my mits by Sunday so I can experience the alternate mix of intrigue and disappointment that is Caprica!

[dsgtdave]

Well I don't know if you will do as many flips on Caprica as I have done but enjoy it nonetheless. I will sum it up for me like this on a high low scale:

Pilot was a high note followed by a bit of a let down in Rebirth. Reigns was ok and Caprica begins a steady climb throughout 1.0. 1.5 begins with a dip and that theme continues until the Things We Lock Away where the series took a bit of direction. False Labor flattens out a bit again and then the last five climb back up.

Would make for a good (positive direction) chart but not as great as it should have been.

[Lacy Lover]

The best thing:

LACY!!!!

[Lacy Lover]

I would have to say the worst thing is how there were times where Lacy was treated as an afterthought.