[obsolete toaster]

Time to dust off this old thread, because IMO Caprica is on the critical list, and I'd like to discuss ways we'd like to fix it if we could.

My first idea? Less of this frankly boring STO bulls**t. I'm sorry, but seeing middle-class/rich Caprican schoolkids wanting to be Al Qaeda is about as believable as Donny Osmond having a new career as a hip-hop star. Yes, most of the 'soldiers' (terrorists) from Al Qaeda are poor, disenfranchised followers who have (in their minds) nothing to lose. They are usually seduced by leaders such as bin Laden (a very wealthy Saudi Arabian) who finance them to advance their own political agendas. But usually, the operatives are the bottom of the barrel poor who've nothing to lose (cannon-fodder).

Maybe if Caprica's 'monotheism' was presented as a latent class struggle slowly bubbling to the surface of the upper-crust elite life of Caprican society (maybe semi-analogous to the Russian Revolution of 1917), I could believe it better. Right now? It's a bunch of angsty teens/teachers with bombs. Not believable as a 'real' religious fundamentalist movement. The wealthy upper strata are less inclined to be strap-on bombers (not that there haven't been, but those are usually people who are least politically disenfranchised as well).

I know the writers can't remove the whole 'Jihad Weekly' from the storyline at this point (it's way too entrenched; and the mono/polytheistic struggle is vital to it's 'sequel' show), but they could keep it more as a background thing, and really ramp up Daniel's quest for true cybernetic intelligence, while simultaneously losing his own humanity. Zoe needs to be the 'face of the future' as well, and not just a Matrix-y, kick-a$$ avatar. She is living artificial intelligence!! She is what the whole damn show is all about! More please....

I still think the 'old man hybrid' in Razor could BE Daniel Graystone, and that is a journey I want to see.

And Joseph Adama needs to go back to the bright side of the Force stat. This thug thing is really putting me off; we have his brother for that. I miss the grieving father/husband struggling to maintain 'normalcy' for him and his son. I don't like to see him bullying Daniel, or authorizing kidnappings, or threatening to kill people; it undermines any sympathy I once had for the man. Again, the character is still redeemable, but it's going to take a lot of effort. I also find it hard to believe he would be this noted civil rights attorney with THIS many skeletons in his closet. Delaware senatorial candidate (and utter moron) Christine O'Donnell 'dabbled' in witchcraft as a youth, and it gets her an SNL parody (and a 19 point drop against her rival). And since Caprica's information-gathering level seems to be roughly equal/better than ours, I'd say the chances of Joseph keeping a prestigious future legal career are rapidly sinking....

Frankly, this STO thing is turning me off big time.

[dsgtdave]

I would streamline arcs. I love Amanda Graystone and really like her story but they took 12 episodes to get her to stop crying and get moving somewhere. 1.12 did what should have been done in the first half of the series.

I would also write in a story for the Adamas that makes sense. Right now the thug life Joesph isn't really doing anything.

Get this going towards cylon production and BSG mythos.

[obsolete toaster]

dsgtdave, on 20 October 2010 - 07:56 PM, said:

I would streamline arcs. I love Amanda Graystone and really like her story but they took 12 episodes to get her to stop crying and get moving somewhere. 1.12 did what should have been done in the first half of the series.

I would also write in a story for the Adamas that makes sense. Right now the thug life Joesph isn't really doing anything.

Get this going towards cylon production and BSG mythos.

Agreed; this show reminds me a bit of Enterprise (first off, because EE likes it so much! ), in part because both started off interesting, meandered, wasted a lot of precious air time, and then finally, when it was too late, got their s**t together at the 11th hour (to me, ENT only really got good in season 4). If Caprica continues to advance the Cylon mythology in more rapid fashion, the show may go out with a bang and not a whimper after all. But if it's canceled, we may never see a proper resolution. Too bad...

But it's sad how Joseph Adama has been relegated to a Michael Corleone-clone, as he could've been so much more...

[dsgtdave]

obsolete toaster, on 20 October 2010 - 08:21 PM, said:

But it's sad how Joseph Adama has been relegated to a Michael Corleone-clone, as he could've been so much more...

Not even that. Where the hell have they been the last 3 or 4 episodes? And all of a sudden he is the G'trals right hand man in 'these matters'? Frak that.

Establish something for the Adamas to tie them to the BSG mythos or frak off.

[obsolete toaster]

dsgtdave, on 20 October 2010 - 10:39 PM, said:

Not even that. Where the hell have they been the last 3 or 4 episodes? And all of a sudden he is the G'trals right hand man in 'these matters'? Frak that.

Establish something for the Adamas to tie them to the BSG mythos or frak off.

And where is little Willie Adama? The only living, direct tie to BSG??

I'm afraid this show is just going to be remembered as an "AfterMASH" (the infamous, tepid sequel to the immensely popular MASH TV show that followed Col. Potter, Klinger and Father Mulcahy to their post-Korean war careers at a veterans' hospital in Col Potter's home state of Missouri); it was mercifully killed after one season, as it was just a really bad use of these otherwise interesting characters. Not to mention that it added nothing of real value to the MASH name-brand (MASH wrapped up beautifully, and did NOT need a sequel); I see a similar fate for Caprica. And frankly, NuBSG is self-contained without it; it even has a definite resolution! What more do you need?

[dsgtdave]

You are right about BSG being self contained. I still think they can right the ship but the opportunity to do so is obviously in serious doubt.

[obsolete toaster]

dsgtdave, on 21 October 2010 - 06:15 PM, said:

You are right about BSG being self contained. I still think they can right the ship but the opportunity to do so is obviously in serious doubt.

As Khan would say, "Time's up... Admiral (Ron Moore)."


I smell cancellation too.... good thing I didn't get to loving this show too much.

[dsgtdave]

obsolete toaster, on 21 October 2010 - 10:53 PM, said:

As Khan would say, "Time's up... Admiral (Ron Moore)."


I smell cancellation too.... good thing I didn't get to loving this show too much.

I did

[ensign edwards]

Quote

(first off, because EE likes it so much! )

For the record, I don't like Caprica nearly as much as I did Enterprise. I just defend it a lot because I feel a lot of the criticisms are unfair and because I feel like giving some balance to the conversation, cause it seems like there's nothing but negativity about it these days.

[obsolete toaster]

ensign edwards, on 23 October 2010 - 10:46 AM, said:

For the record, I don't like Caprica nearly as much as I did Enterprise. I just defend it a lot because I feel a lot of the criticisms are unfair and because I feel like giving some balance to the conversation, cause it seems like there's nothing but negativity about it these days.

The record is hereby amended.

Sadly, however, I can't disagree with ANY of the negative comments I've read (or even my own). The last episode was an improvement however, and it'd be nice to see the show go out on a high note, at least (if not a complete wrap up).

[ensign edwards]

Quote

Sadly, however, I can't disagree with ANY of the negative comments I've read (or even my own). The last episode was an improvement however, and it'd be nice to see the show go out on a high note, at least (if not a complete wrap up).

Well, of course you don't disagree with your own. I don't disagree with my arguments either.

[obsolete toaster]

ensign edwards, on 26 October 2010 - 12:35 PM, said:

Well, of course you don't disagree with your own. I don't disagree with my arguments either.

Unless of course, you're schizophrenic...

Shut up! Don't call him that!

I didn't call him that; you did!

Did not!

Did so!

Did not!

(OT logging off; that damn voice in my head is back. Thought the doctors said that if I took my drugs he wouldn't come back. Frakking liars... they're all out to get me!)

[dsgtdave]

As much as I loved this show in the 1st half it practically died for me in the second and I am rather put off by it. I must reiterate that they should have started the series with the cylons already in place. They still could have done V world, Graystones, Adamas, etc. but skipping most of the stuff that brought the show to a crawl.

I don't want Caprica surmised in one or two lines during some random Blood & Chrome episode. Alas, it may come to that.

[obsolete toaster]

dsgtdave, on 20 November 2010 - 02:49 AM, said:

As much as I loved this show in the 1st half it practically died for me in the second and I am rather put off by it. I must reiterate that they should have started the series with the cylons already in place. They still could have done V world, Graystones, Adamas, etc. but skipping most of the stuff that brought the show to a crawl.

I don't want Caprica surmised in one or two lines during some random Blood & Chrome episode. Alas, it may come to that.

Maybe a quick shot or two implying that Greystone will wind up as the old-man hybrid we saw in "Razor" would be good enough for me. It'd have that mad-scientist-going-too-far ironic twist to it. Besides, we know that the Adama boys make it (we hear Apollo talk about his grandfather and uncle as if he'd known them as a child).

If I were doing B&C, I'd do an opening montage showing the outbreak of the Cylon War, just to fill in the cracks. But once again; I really wish they'd reconsider doing B&C as a miniseries. That's the ideal format to tell this rather limited story (we already know the very beginning, and we already know the ending; we even saw the end of Cylon War 1 in "Razor". Like the NY cop says, "Nothing to see here...").

[ensign edwards]

Having thought about it, I think the main problem with Caprica was the Adamas. After the pilot, none of them (except one) really contributed anything, but they took up oodles of screen time. Sam was the only one that was really interesting and relevant in every episode. I think they should have had him as part of the show but not as a member of the Adama family and split the attention between him, the Graystones, and Lacey. Plus Clarice in the background as a villain. That would have stream-lined the plot significantly and allowed for things to be much more eventful.

[obsolete toaster]

ensign edwards, on 22 November 2010 - 03:23 PM, said:

Having thought about it, I think the main problem with Caprica was the Adamas. After the pilot, none of them (except one) really contributed anything, but they took up oodles of screen time. Sam was the only one that was really interesting and relevant in every episode. I think they should have had him as part of the show but not as a member of the Adama family and split the attention between him, the Graystones, and Lacey. Plus Clarice in the background as a villain. That would have stream-lined the plot significantly and allowed for things to be much more eventful.

Good point.
Although I liked Esai Morales as Joseph Adama (in the beginning, I thought he brought an raw, earthiness to that universe), I do admit that the writers didn't seem to know what to do with him for a while. And yes, Sam brought a nice splash of color to the show (I loved his interactions with young Willie), towards the end he was reduced to just a thug (as was Joseph for that matter).

Too bad; good actors, they were....


Something tells me that we are all going to be going over the smoking wreckage of Caprica for a long time!

[Cylon-Knight]

I imagine if I was in the Caprica's writer room, I'd excuse the writers leaving the SyFy executives. Then I'd excuse myself from the room and give a "Zarek" glance to the guards outside... I think you know what happens next.

[obsolete toaster]

Cylon-Knight, on 22 November 2010 - 09:00 PM, said:

I imagine if I was in the Caprica's writer room, I'd excuse the writers leaving the SyFy executives. Then I'd excuse myself from the room and give a "Zarek" glance to the guards outside... I think you know what happens next.

Good one!

(Although there might be one or two of the writers I'd ask to stay put!)

[ensign edwards]

Quote

Good point.
Although I liked Esai Morales as Joseph Adama (in the beginning, I thought he brought an raw, earthiness to that universe), I do admit that the writers didn't seem to know what to do with him for a while. And yes, Sam brought a nice splash of color to the show (I loved his interactions with young Willie), towards the end he was reduced to just a thug (as was Joseph for that matter).

See, I think Sam has gotten more likable as time goes on, not less. But then, you might feel the same after you see the last episodes.

[obsolete toaster]

ensign edwards, on 25 November 2010 - 03:00 PM, said:

See, I think Sam has gotten more likable as time goes on, not less. But then, you might feel the same after you see the last episodes.

Come late December (when the dvds hit the North America), I can add something substantial to the conversation. Right now? I'm taking your word for it.