[p0is0n0us]

I rewatched the pilot episode the other day of Caprica and when Daniel downloaded Zoe he used a USB Hard drive. I never realised that USB technology was that old

[dsgtdave]

All of this has happened before and will happen again can answer a lot of those questions and scenarios

[Cylon-Knight]

Yeah, his little JUMP drive (get it... JUMP!)

[obsolete toaster]

Cylon-Knight, on 11 February 2010 - 09:43 PM, said:

Yeah, his little JUMP drive (get it... JUMP!)

(putting my hand in my face) Oh, boy....

CK needs his humor chip upgraded again....

[Cylon-Knight]

BUT WAIT!
.... I can jump on one foot too.... see......

[Aphrodite]

I want to see you do that while jumping on a bed!

[Cylon-Knight]

And spinning plates on a stick! Cylon-Knight, I am.

[obsolete toaster]

The wonderful, wild, weird world of CK!
***Enter at your own risk!***


As for the USB thing, I wonder if you had humans seeded on other planets (hypothetically, of course) all brought there in early stages of development (we're talking 'Quest for Fire' stage), and given similar resources, atmosphere, etc, how many of those cultures would evolve along similar lines? You can safely assume all of their languages would be radically different; as ours are here on earth (and some of those languages are only separated by walking distance in some cases).

Would their buildings look alike (assuming they make buildings)? Would they all become technological, or agrarian based? Or a mix (as our world is)? Would they all develop the concept of war? Would they all gravitate towards religion?

And the big question.... what would their standard USB ports look like??

[Nick R.]

obsolete toaster, on 13 February 2010 - 10:34 AM, said:

The wonderful, wild, weird world of CK!
***Enter at your own risk!***


As for the USB thing, I wonder if you had humans seeded on other planets (hypothetically, of course) all brought there in early stages of development (we're talking 'Quest for Fire' stage), and given similar resources, atmosphere, etc, how many of those cultures would evolve along similar lines? You can safely assume all of their languages would be radically different; as ours are here on earth (and some of those languages are only separated by walking distance in some cases).

Would their buildings look alike (assuming they make buildings)? Would they all become technological, or agrarian based? Or a mix (as our world is)? Would they all develop the concept of war? Would they all gravitate towards religion?

And the big question.... what would their standard USB ports look like??

Now that is loaded. Recall the law of mediacracy(sp?) Which states that things are pretty much the same all over.

The reason why our buildings are square is laziness. Yes, laziness - you pay for corners. the more off they are from 90 degrees, the more expensive they become. This is why in the modern real world round houses aren't done too often.

Go back to mfar more primative times, and you will find round houses, which are easier and faster to build if you don't a carpenter's square. Or other fancy tools.


Now as to language there are some limits, humans can only make forty-eight sounds. This limits the possiblities tremendously.


Then there is mathmatics - by what ever you call it, there are consants that are universal. Like Pi, and 2.718281812... These aren't the only ones make no mistake about that.

Then you have engineering limits, which again brings in math as well. Not just for designing starships, but ordinary everyday buildings. Only certain things can be done with iron, and steel. Not to mention wood, and clay...


The you have our desing. We all conform to just about the same average shape. This imposes some limitation on design as well.


Now we get into a sticky wicket.

Culture.

Cultures can remain esentially unchanged for thousands of years - witness Austrailain native people.

Now will will get even stickier.

Man builds cities.

Cities are groups of building the conform to some set of needs. As determined by the cultural definitions of the population as a whole. So why is this very sticky? I told you humans build cities. As in when were the first cites built? That is a very interesting question.

According to Under World by Graham Hancock there is the remains of a city of the the coast of Pakistan/India boarder. This city is in about 150 plus feet of water. The last time it was above water, was around 9600 B. C. when the North American Ice sheet under went severe water release (it melted) this raised the sea level world wide by - you guessed about 150 feet plus in four days or so. (sorry I can't be more exact than this, it has been a long time since read the book)

The existence of one city 12 by twenty kilometers in size at that depth implies others. Cities don't exist alone... But why is this so sticky? Because it is in a period of time that isn't looked too throughly by Archeologists. Why? Because then they would have to learn to swim, quite well.

In other words cultures arise and then fall, all the time.

Another case brought up by the NYTImes.

The Hudson river is very poluted. So to map the sites of greatest polution, they had to make highly accurate maps of the bottom of the river. To theri profound shock, they while doing the mapping foundd to unknown walls. Well what is so shocking about that? Well the last time they were above the water, was three thousand years ago.


So the question becomes; who built them? Unknown. I haven't seen much on them at all. But thery are man made.

So I ask again: What has Man been up to, and how much have we lost to shear bad luck?

By the way, that 9600 B. C. date is almost identical to the sinking of the mythical? Atlantis... Go figure.

[Cylon-Knight]

I would not want a round house... where would I hang a picture!? Now, my Basestar is round, but it has square rooms.

[obsolete toaster]

Nice analysis, Nick (although the 'forty odd sounds of human vocalization' part assumes a verbal only language; what if it were verbal combined with hand gestures or clapping sounds or who knows what? There are many possibilities; perhaps a spoken language combined with gestures that correspond to symbols on page? You never know... ).

I rather suspect that IF there are other humans in the galaxy, and they evolved fire, tools and technology, I imagine they would follow our genetic/social roadmap more or less (and the odds are ridiculously against other humans, granted. Alien life? Probably. Human? Very unlikely ... too many factors would have to come together exactly so for that to happen).

PS: And when I was a kid, I always thought a house with a central dome with radiating hallways protruding from it would've been kind of neat! Sort of a "James Bond villain's lair"/quasi-futuristic chic kind of thing! Or say, a central rounded dome for a common area and separate but independent rooms attached all around the hub? Always wondered about the possibilities of rounded versus squared architecture.
I don't know; just a boyhood 'architectural fantasy' of mine!

[Nick R.]

We already do to a certain extant use gestures to extend meaning of what we say, as well as facial expressions. This is why on the telephone, words are often confused. We can't see the person, so we are lacking data to complete what they are saying. This is also why emoticons were invented. To fill in the possible gaps in understanding of what is written.

By the way there is a human laguage composed entirly of whisles... Its advantage is that the whisles can travel farther than the human voice can, using something like English. I think I read it was in the Canary islands.

Now for something interesting along the same line of thought. Measurements. In the U. S. we still use the English system of foot, pound, and so forth. But in other countries they use the metric system. Why is this interesting? Well U. S. submires will always operate based upon their deapth in feet, a Russian submarine will operate in meters. Meaning whole numbers, meaning that one can who is who based upon this difference.

So getting back to the Twelve Colonies of Man. Their measurement system will force certain behaviors to occur...

So even if they are "speaking" English, don't read too much into what they are saying without a ruler handy, or a scale, or other conversion method.

For an excellant book on this topic James P. Hogan's novel Inherit the Stars has a good primer on what is required.

[Cylon-Knight]

Maybe there is a planet out there full of Cylon-Knight clones... a planet full of "me." Wouldn't that be cool?! ... BOY - I got a gesture for them, those punks! LOL

[obsolete toaster]

Cylon-Knight, on 15 February 2010 - 08:03 PM, said:

Maybe there is a planet out there full of Cylon-Knight clones... a planet full of "me." Wouldn't that be cool?! ... BOY - I got a gesture for them, those punks! LOL

You could just 'whistle' it to them instead!

Not to disagree with Nick R's otherwise spot on analysis, but I think emotions evolved not so much as a communication tool so much as a survival tool. The joy connected with having sex for example, was a simple evolved means of ensuring procreation. The fear felt when confronted by a dangerous predator spurred our ancestors into fight or flight reactions that saved lives. The nurturing, tender feelings we have toward our young not only ensured their immediate survival, but in the larger sense, the continuance of our very DNA (same goes with the natural protectiveness felt towards a spouse). So I don't think our emotions were a means for communication (as non-communicative animals experience them too) so much as a survival tool, at least in the beginning. Now our emotions (like our lives) truly have become a language; far more laced with meaning and subtext than our remote ancestors could've ever foreseen.
<< See what I mean?

[Cylon-Knight]

I have no feelings on the subject.

*Fights back smart-aleck laugh*

[Nick R.]

obsolete toaster, on 15 February 2010 - 11:24 PM, said:

You could just 'whistle' it to them instead!

Not to disagree with Nick R's otherwise spot on analysis, but I think emotions evolved not so much as a communication tool so much as a survival tool. The joy connected with having sex for example, was a simple evolved means of ensuring procreation. The fear felt when confronted by a dangerous predator spurred our ancestors into fight or flight reactions that saved lives. The nurturing, tender feelings we have toward our young not only ensured their immediate survival, but in the larger sense, the continuance of our very DNA (same goes with the natural protectiveness felt towards a spouse). So I don't think our emotions were a means for communication (as non-communicative animals experience them too) so much as a survival tool, at least in the beginning. Now our emotions (like our lives) truly have become a language; far more laced with meaning and subtext than our remote ancestors could've ever foreseen.
<< See what I mean?

I knew that post of mine wasn't long enough....


Emotions depending upon what level of the brain you are talking about do enhance survival. Beginning with the R-complex the emotions involved at that level deal with fight of flight reponses, and territorial defense(which can be reduced to a survial need).

But as one goes up the scale of life, emotions trigger communicational needs/displays. Yes, this is communication, not language. A wolf's behavior is far more complex than a lizard's... Mamal versus reptile.

But displays are only one possibility, a series of multiple displays, can reach a very high degree of meaning - witness the octopus and squid, which are neither reptile, nor fish, but something else all together.

But humans are something else again. We not only communicate, but have converstaions. But these are more than simple sonic mechanisms. Motion is invovled as well, such as hand movements, but this isn't limit, the movement of the face, in certain standardized ways (disply: anger, display: happiness, and so on; are displays of internal emotive states, that enrich the conersation, and permti a greater awarness of the full meaning of what is meant.


In other words, this thread is talking about what it means to be human, under a varity of conditions. Which is for me to find out would require a Masters, and then a Doctorial degree in Anthropology.

Yes, people this is how we are going...

[Cylon-Knight]

Nick R., on 16 February 2010 - 07:32 PM, said:

But humans are something else again. We not only communicate, but have converstaions.

That is a bit presumptuous. How do humans know that no other creatures (ever) have had - or not had conversations? I don't know either, I can't claim to know the facts either way. That’s being way to general and putting too much into what knowledge humans have. And a pure scientific method will not work either, that can’t even prove I exist.

Nick R., on 16 February 2010 - 07:32 PM, said:

Which is for me to find out would require a Masters, and then a Doctorial degree in Anthropology.

Doctor, my Anthropogy hurts when I move my arm like this.

[obsolete toaster]

Cylon-Knight, on 16 February 2010 - 09:47 AM, said:

I have no feelings on the subject.

*Fights back smart-aleck laugh*

You just need to embrace your 'inner-primitive', CK!

[Cylon-Knight]

I NEED my pain, it makes me who I am.
(Oh yeah, that just happened ;P)



"So long. And thanks for all the fish."

[obsolete toaster]

Cylon-Knight, on 16 February 2010 - 08:13 PM, said:

I NEED my pain, it makes me who I am.
(Oh yeah, that just happened ;P)



"So long. And thanks for all the fish."

"Your inner primitive runs deep...."

(throbbing heartbeat sound effects, ominous music cues up...)