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Official "Daybreak, Part 2" Comment Thread, Running Comments and opinions about the episode! Last Frakkin Espiode

#161 User is offline   Captain Taurus Icon

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 02:31 AM

Daybreak was a highly intelligent episode. It brings us to conclusion of our noble colonial warriors efforts to protect mankind and find the 13th colony...well 14th colony in this case. We have a happy ending for our brave warriors. Katee has a Japanese-like ending...she goes to heaven after finishing her mission to bring mankind to the new Earth.

Lee, Husker, Tigh, and others branch off to settle the planet in their own way. It is sad that they are all dividing up and separated from each other but it makes sense. Otherwise, we would have another spin-off of BSG. Err...I mean a successful spin-off. Did I say that out loud? LOL.

I appreciate the way how the show was concluded...especially the neat part where we jump 150,000 years into the future and see our Earth as it is today with new technology that is evolving around us. Taking the form of its creators and a warning that what has happened before will happen again unless we are smart enough not to let that happen. No more Cylons! Yes, to Battlestars! That would be very cool.

I digress...here's to happy endings and to Daybreak for being a great episode!
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Posted 02 December 2011 - 11:59 AM

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Daybreak was a highly intelligent episode.


Intelligent? I must disagree. The writing for this episode was embarrassingly bad and frankly the very opposite of intelligent.

"Daybreak" was exciting, moving, and heartfelt, but it was definitely not intelligent.
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#163 User is offline   Captain Taurus Icon

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 07:26 PM

View Postensign edwards, on 02 December 2011 - 11:59 AM, said:

Intelligent? I must disagree. The writing for this episode was embarrassingly bad and frankly the very opposite of intelligent.

"Daybreak" was exciting, moving, and heartfelt, but it was definitely not intelligent.


Disagree with your disagree. It was smart because it was exciting, moving, heartfelt with a poignant message at the end of the episode. How could you say it was anything else. It was very intelligent like the series was.
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Posted 02 December 2011 - 10:27 PM

View Postensign edwards, on 02 December 2011 - 11:59 AM, said:

Intelligent? I must disagree. The writing for this episode was embarrassingly bad and frankly the very opposite of intelligent.

"Daybreak" was exciting, moving, and heartfelt, but it was definitely not intelligent.

Not to speak for CT, but what I think he means (and if so, I agree) is that "Daybreak" was savvy enough to craft a conclusion that not only answered many questions (the most burning for me personally being how Galactica's mythos fit into OUR universe; and frankly I love how they answered that), but it was also smart enough to know that after a four seasons of sturm und drang dramatics, you HAD to give the loyal audience what it wanted the most for these characters... hope. :)

Now hope may not be intelligent (on that point I agree with you EE; especially as a cynical old atheist fart like me), but sometimes it really just feels good to end things on a genuinely positive, hopeful note. The writers were VERY smart to exploit that, IMO...

I don't think Daybreak is one of the 'smarter' entries of the series, but it was VERY emotionally satisfying (for me, anyway).... :cylonclap:
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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:35 AM

View Postobsolete toaster, on 02 December 2011 - 10:27 PM, said:

Not to speak for CT, but what I think he means (and if so, I agree) is that "Daybreak" was savvy enough to craft a conclusion that not only answered many questions (the most burning for me personally being how Galactica's mythos fit into OUR universe; and frankly I love how they answered that), but it was also smart enough to know that after a four seasons of sturm und drang dramatics, you HAD to give the loyal audience what it wanted the most for these characters... hope. :)

Now hope may not be intelligent (on that point I agree with you EE; especially as a cynical old atheist fart like me), but sometimes it really just feels good to end things on a genuinely positive, hopeful note. The writers were VERY smart to exploit that, IMO...

I don't think Daybreak is one of the 'smarter' entries of the series, but it was VERY emotionally satisfying (for me, anyway).... :cylonclap:


Well said! Bravo...bravo...
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Posted 05 December 2011 - 11:27 AM

View PostCaptain Taurus, on 02 December 2011 - 07:26 PM, said:

Disagree with your disagree. It was smart because it was exciting, moving, heartfelt with a poignant message at the end of the episode. How could you say it was anything else. It was very intelligent like the series was.


Emotional and intelligent are different things. I won't argue that "Daybreak" was an extremely moving episode, but it left me intellectually cold. It's a shame that such a smart series abandoned its intelligence in its final hour.
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Posted 08 December 2011 - 12:04 PM

View Postensign edwards, on 05 December 2011 - 11:27 AM, said:

Emotional and intelligent are different things. I won't argue that "Daybreak" was an extremely moving episode, but it left me intellectually cold. It's a shame that such a smart series abandoned its intelligence in its final hour.


Yes, EE, I am well aware of the differences between intelligent and emotional. The question is are you aware that the script does not have to be intellectual to be intelligently written. I completely disagree that it abandon its intelligence in its final hour. I think it was clever way to wrap story up and bring about some underlining messages to the forefront at its conclusion.
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Posted 11 December 2011 - 10:59 AM

Well, I suppose I can see what you're saying, but that doesn't make it any less disappointing.
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Posted 11 December 2011 - 01:30 PM

View Postensign edwards, on 11 December 2011 - 10:59 AM, said:

Well, I suppose I can see what you're saying, but that doesn't make it any less disappointing.

I think different people simply have differing impressions of the same material. Even the best movies will always have detractors. And on the reverse of that statement, even Star Trek V has it's sole champion (aka CK! Hee hee...).

I think Daybreak appealed to BSG fans in very different ways. It's one of the problems with finales; how do you wrap everything up in a nice, neat bow for everyone? We all imagine in our mind's eye what a finale should be (based on what we each respond to from BSG), and we're either disappointed or satisfied when it misses or exceeds our expectations.

In a way, Daybreak is kind of a BSG fan Rorschach test. I got what I personally expected and wanted from it, but I can understand how others may not have.
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Posted 19 January 2012 - 05:46 PM

View Postobsolete toaster, on 11 December 2011 - 01:30 PM, said:

I think different people simply have differing impressions of the same material. Even the best movies will always have detractors. And on the reverse of that statement, even Star Trek V has it's sole champion (aka CK! Hee hee...).

I think Daybreak appealed to BSG fans in very different ways. It's one of the problems with finales; how do you wrap everything up in a nice, neat bow for everyone? We all imagine in our mind's eye what a finale should be (based on what we each respond to from BSG), and we're either disappointed or satisfied when it misses or exceeds our expectations.

In a way, Daybreak is kind of a BSG fan Rorschach test. I got what I personally expected and wanted from it, but I can understand how others may not have.


I think it delivered. At least it made a nice happy ending in true BSG form. It wasn't overly sappy, although I personally would have loved it if Katee had been allowed to live as well as President Roslyn. You know give her a happy ending as well. I think it would have been great, but aside from that I agreed with everything that they did on it. A bleak ending would have made me cry. I hate to cry.

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:51 PM

View PostCaptain Taurus, on 19 January 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

I think it delivered. At least it made a nice happy ending in true BSG form. It wasn't overly sappy, although I personally would have loved it if Katee had been allowed to live as well as President Roslyn. You know give her a happy ending as well. I think it would have been great, but aside from that I agreed with everything that they did on it. A bleak ending would have made me cry. I hate to cry.


And who'd want to see that, right? :P

And I'm also of of the opinion that BSG needed a bit of sunshine after four seasons of grim, post-apocalyptic action. Except for a handful of episodes here and there ("You Can't Go Home Again", "Flight of the Phoenix" "Home part 2" etc), the series is very (realistically) bleak. While I applaud NuBSG's commitment to 'keeping it real' (instead of having cute robot dogs), I also think that ending the series on a hopeful note was a wise choice. Part of what compels the audience to watch is hope. Hope that these survivors will find a refuge. Even if their 'happy ending' is to have their descendents live on 150,000 years later in our own, decidedly mixed-bag world of the present day; at least there is hope that the artificial intelligence-overthrowing-humanity cycle of the human race may finally be broken...

The lack of hope is one of the reasons I think that "Caprica" was a relative failure by comparison. The only thing we had to look 'forward' to on that show was the eventual downfall of the human race. That might work for a one-off movie (lots of scifi movies in the pre-Star Wars years had grim, often fatalistic endings) but it's really hard to keep an audience hooked from week-to-week when you eliminate even the promise of hope. I don't mind a 'downer' movie now and then, but it's really hard to stay with a series that you know will only end badly.
(Here's hoping my new favorite show, "Walking Dead" ends with a cure to the zombie plague... :unsure: )

Hope is also one of the reasons I keep voting in my country's elections (even when I really should know better by now...) :lol:
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Posted 21 February 2012 - 03:20 AM

View Postobsolete toaster, on 22 January 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

And who'd want to see that, right? :P

And I'm also of of the opinion that BSG needed a bit of sunshine after four seasons of grim, post-apocalyptic action. Except for a handful of episodes here and there ("You Can't Go Home Again", "Flight of the Phoenix" "Home part 2" etc), the series is very (realistically) bleak. While I applaud NuBSG's commitment to 'keeping it real' (instead of having cute robot dogs), I also think that ending the series on a hopeful note was a wise choice. Part of what compels the audience to watch is hope. Hope that these survivors will find a refuge. Even if their 'happy ending' is to have their descendents live on 150,000 years later in our own, decidedly mixed-bag world of the present day; at least there is hope that the artificial intelligence-overthrowing-humanity cycle of the human race may finally be broken...

The lack of hope is one of the reasons I think that "Caprica" was a relative failure by comparison. The only thing we had to look 'forward' to on that show was the eventual downfall of the human race. That might work for a one-off movie (lots of scifi movies in the pre-Star Wars years had grim, often fatalistic endings) but it's really hard to keep an audience hooked from week-to-week when you eliminate even the promise of hope. I don't mind a 'downer' movie now and then, but it's really hard to stay with a series that you know will only end badly.
(Here's hoping my new favorite show, "Walking Dead" ends with a cure to the zombie plague... :unsure: )

Hope is also one of the reasons I keep voting in my country's elections (even when I really should know better by now...) :lol:


How true! No one would want a bleak ending unless you are into that sort of thing. I think BSG needed more inspiring moments of hope! It was like by the time we got to Earth everyone was so emotionally drained from all the REALISM!! That the episode almost had no impact! BUT I am grateful that it did move me. I was cheering with everyone else.

However, I still maintain that they could have ended it just a little differently and made it a happier ending for everyone. As far as Caprica is concerned, I can't speak about it because I have only watched the pilot of it. Never saw any of the episodes due to my situation I was in at that time...no television! So now I can watch it but it is off the air. Must purchase the DVD collection.
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Posted 21 February 2012 - 06:26 PM

View PostCaptain Taurus, on 21 February 2012 - 03:20 AM, said:

How true! No one would want a bleak ending unless you are into that sort of thing. I think BSG needed more inspiring moments of hope! It was like by the time we got to Earth everyone was so emotionally drained from all the REALISM!! That the episode almost had no impact! BUT I am grateful that it did move me. I was cheering with everyone else.


I feel precisely the opposite about that; I think that the 'mega-happy' ending of BSG (which I loved, by the way) was made even more satisfying BECAUSE of the constant, gritty, unremitting, dreary realism of life in the rag-tag fleet. If BSG has too much optimism? It becomes Star Trek; which is fine for ST, but it'd be deadly for BSG (it'd turn it into the old show, with robo-daggits and such). BSG is not so much a space opera as it is a post-apocalyptic story (one of the reasons I love it's earthbound cousin, "The Walking Dead."). You can't have too much sunshine when dealing with the end of the world.
:cylonnono:

But IMO, the Daybreak 2 was damn near perfect. I wouldn't have changed a thing, really. I even liked the ambiguity of Starbuck (was she a ghost? An angel? Speculating is half the fun...). The fact that we're still talking about it means it worked; it provoked thought and open debate. I love a touch of ambiguity now and then; less truly IS more, sometimes.
:cylonclap:
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 03:06 AM

View Postobsolete toaster, on 21 February 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

I feel precisely the opposite about that; I think that the 'mega-happy' ending of BSG (which I loved, by the way) was made even more satisfying BECAUSE of the constant, gritty, unremitting, dreary realism of life in the rag-tag fleet. If BSG has too much optimism? It becomes Star Trek; which is fine for ST, but it'd be deadly for BSG (it'd turn it into the old show, with robo-daggits and such). BSG is not so much a space opera as it is a post-apocalyptic story (one of the reasons I love it's earthbound cousin, "The Walking Dead."). You can't have too much sunshine when dealing with the end of the world.
:cylonnono:

But IMO, the Daybreak 2 was damn near perfect. I wouldn't have changed a thing, really. I even liked the ambiguity of Starbuck (was she a ghost? An angel? Speculating is half the fun...). The fact that we're still talking about it means it worked; it provoked thought and open debate. I love a touch of ambiguity now and then; less truly IS more, sometimes.
:cylonclap:


I guess what I am saying, is that the show could have used more uplifting moments. I am not saying turn it into Star Trek. Far from it. But even in your typical horror movie there are moments where they allow the audience to calm down and then escalate again. At no time does Galactica allow us to calm down. It is almost like watching a hyper kid for too long, sooner or later it gets tiresome. For me, it grew tiresome. I think that is why the show ended after only 4 seasons versus 5 or even 6 seasons. You can only stay depressed for so long. I think that is why you and I, enjoyed the Pegasus arc so much because it offers hope again. Some positive moments in an otherwise, dreary situation which makes the show compelling and stronger. Didn't make it corny or full of sunshine but it offered strength to the show that I wish they had continued doing so in season 3. Season 3 in my opinion was so depressing it was almost a write off. Season 4.0 and 4.5 kicks ass again with hope.
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Posted 22 April 2013 - 11:50 PM

Blowing the 'space dust' off of this topic, I was thinking about "Daybreak" part 2 recently, and a lot of the fanboy anger over the symbolism of the 'opera house' and how disappointed some were that the opera house turned out to be the CIC of the Galactica.

I was thinking about this recently, and I really believe (as I did 4 years ago) that the opera house could ONLY have been the CIC. The whole symbolism of it was that the characters were 'cast' as opera house players, and that each of them had a 'role' to play in the final 'music' (music plays a heavy role in the saga; Kara's 'song' lets them find Earth, and Bob Dylan music jars the memories of the "Final Five", etc.). Each character (Roslin, Six, Hera, Sharon, the Final Five) all had to play their 'parts' so that the final orchestra of the 'time cycle' could come together and play. The theatre in which it all took place was (of course) the last human battlestar, the Galactica.

Where else could the opera house have been anyway, really? It could only truly be the played out in the venue of the Galactica. If the opera house were literal and real (other than the Kobol ruins, of course), it would have been both jarring and a narrative mistake. So much of BSG is about symbols. Some literal, some more figurative. The opera house is kind of a final culmination of BSG's separate strands of repeating chords of time; much like music and recurring motifs. And of playing one's 'role' in the great cycle of time, like being a player in the great cosmic stage. The final orchestra comes together.... aboard the last 'lifeboat' of the human race (the Galactica herself); what could be a more dramatic venue than that, really?

So for this old toaster? The opera house is a perfect metaphor. Perhaps its not entirely obvious at first (it may not have even been intentional) but it still works.... :thumbsup:
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