[Zipper]

Starts tonight on Scifi at 10/9C and don't forget that this episode will be running about 3 min longer so please adjust your recording device. Tell us what you think about the episode!

[Spartanz1170v2]

This can't be happening! THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING! D! NOO!

Edit: On second thought... oh crap! the final Cylon is Ellen Tigh...

[uberscribbler]

I'm more surprised Dee decided to end her date with Lee by blowing her brains out in the officer's bunkroom.

Then again, given circumstances? I'd be surprised if the act isn't repeated all over the fleet.

Kara finding that corpse had already been spoiled for me. It nevertheless was a pretty frakking powerful scene! Wonder what she's going to do with that second pair of dog-tags.

[Aphrodite]

I'm putting this whole thing in spoiler quotes because I'm a little pissed and letdown about something.

What the hell were they thinking making Ellen Tigh as the final Cylon!! She's not important at all!! What has she done in the fleet that made an impact besides fracking half the fleet??

As for Kara, I wasn't surprised at all to her finding her body. I guess that means that Kara really is a Ghost or a zombie or something.

As for Dee blowing her brains out after her date with Lee, I really don't know what to say about that because I don't know why she did it. I wish they would've said something as to why.

[eliteone]

After watching it I'm left with...........................................Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Hopefully the "why" factor will be answered soon.

[Tom]

Only Deanna knows who the fifth cylon is, so it would make sense for Tigh to check with her with who he believe is the fifth.

[ensign edwards]

Overall, an excellent episode. Very powerful.

Holy frack. Ellen's the final Cylon. I'm not sure about that choice, but I have supreme trust in the writers, so I'm sure it'll turn out to be a good decision.

I feel a bit silly for going on about Kendra for so long. Well, sorry folks. I was wrong. I have to say, there are some things about Razor that don't make much sense now.

It was kind of a shock when Dee killed herself, but once I thought about it, it makes sense, considering her reaction on finding Earth.

Even though it had been spoiled, Kara finding her body was quite a scene. You know things are getting nuts when Leoben is weirded out.

There are a lot of things I'm very confused about. I don't know if this is the future or the past or an alternate Earth or what. One thing I thought of: what if Earth was destroyed by a group of humans? That would certainly fit their habit of reversing our expectations.

In recent times, I've become a believer in the idea that a third force is manipulating both the humans and the Cylons. So the question becomes: why did it bring them to Earth?

[maneth]

Good questions. A really mind-blowing start to the final 10 episodes.

[Karajorma]

I'm definitely looking forward to seeing where they go with this. I also have doubts about their choice of the 5th but they did hint rather heavily as to the fact.

[Zipper]

I'm definitely looking forward to seeing where they go with this. I also have doubts about their choice of the 5th but they did hint rather heavily as to the fact.

Welcome aboard Karajorma and thanks for your opinion!

[cloudsclear]

Well, first up, let me stick my hand dutifully in the air and say all my guesses about the identity of the fifth were wrong.

Yeah, Ellen makes sense and is consistent with both what Ron Moore said about the Final Supper photo and what Three said about there being four in the fleet. And yeah, the idea that the fifth is just another one of the four and who would have been there in "Crossroads" except that they were dead... that resonates with the tone and idea of the episode - "no solutions here". And fine, making it another major human character might have sent all the others into a fatal tailspin, given how despairing they all are. My problem isn't there.

See, I'm trying to decide whether my disappointment is because my pet theories were shot down or because it really isn't a good choice. As EE says, perhaps we should trust in the writers but... I mean... Ellen Tigh? She has no dramatic impact at all; in fact, she detracts from that harrowing scene where Tigh kills her.

It does raise some interesting questions. Among them:-

1) Did Ellen always have her Cylon memories? If not, who was the mysterious benefactor who saved her when the Cylon nukes hit - if they recognised her, it means someone else knows who the Final Five are. I've heard something about 'The Plan' where Cavil is on Caprica before the attacks and implies he knows who the Final Five are.

2) If the fleet could identify the bones on Earth as Cylon and those Cylons were of the same race as Tyrol, etc, that means Baltar tested Ellen and found her positive - that he has known all this time that Ellen was a Cylon.

3) Ellen is in seven of the nine remaining episodes - does that mean that she has resurrected and, if so, doesn't that mean the other of the Five have multiple copies? Will, maybe, the massive battle said to be taking place at the end of the season between the Final Five basestars and Cavil's? I never really thought they'd go down the route of multiple Final Five copies and all that goes with it, but hey, if Ellen's the fifth, they may do just about anything.

Of course, it could be a bluff. It might be that Tigh recreated his dead wife separately from the creation of the other twelve. It might be that lots of people resurrected from Earth. It might be another crazy projection vision - he's already seen Six as if she was Ellen. And let's not forget that Starbuck has died and returned - that's fairly Cylony, isn't it? Or perhaps she's the 13th, just like there was a 13th colony - and that 13th is human, just as the previous 13th was Cylon. So they may just be messing with us.

As to the rest of the stuff in the episode... most of that had either appeared in clips I'd seen or had been spoiled. And it's all fantastic, by me. I don't think we need much explanation for Dee's suicide than that some of the fleet were just going to absolutely go spare and we needed to see that happen to one of our familiar characters. The focus on her was just like the sudden focus on Cally when she died.

Earth was bloody interesting. I'd heard that the bones were all Cylon, but what does that mean?!? Were all the people on Kobol Cylons? And if so, does that mean that the humans are all just Cylons who had evolved for 2,000 years? If not, were the humans who fled to found the Twelve Colonies just humans created by the Cylons, beings who started off as human and rebelled against their masters? Just what is the shape of the Cycle?

But... Ellen? Really? I'm kind of... hoping it's not true. I can't predicate the enjoyment of the rest of the series on that, though, as it'd be a massive potential letdown. And yeah, I can give Ron Moore a break as the series has been brilliant to this point. But Ellen? It's so... boring...

[Karajorma]

See, I'm trying to decide whether my disappointment is because my pet theories were shot down or because it really isn't a good choice. As EE says, perhaps we should trust in the writers but... I mean... Ellen Tigh? She has no dramatic impact at all; in fact, she detracts from that harrowing scene where Tigh kills her.

But does it? I mean we got all that drama and now we're wondering what will happen when/if she comes back. Does she forgive Tigh? Does she fight him? Side with Cavil? There are a lot of ways this could go. And as you say, it might be a bluff.

If the fleet could identify the bones on Earth as Cylon and those Cylons were of the same race as Tyrol, etc, that means Baltar tested Ellen and found her positive - that he has known all this time that Ellen was a Cylon.

But Baltar says that he's not actually running the tests. Everyone passes. It's quite possible he didn't bother finishing hers either.

3) Ellen is in seven of the nine remaining episodes - does that mean that she has resurrected and, if so, doesn't that mean the other of the Five have multiple copies?

Firstly she doesn't have to resurrect. Her entire part could be flashback after all. Secondly there's no reason that the final five can't have an automatic machine somewhere for resurrection. There's no need to have multiple copies, just have a machine spit them out when one dies. They may have had 2000 years to build it after all.

[Aphrodite]

About the testing of Ellen, yeah, another inconsistency from the mind of RDM. I think they should've thought about that choice before choosing her.

[cloudsclear]

All good points, especially about the copies machine. After all, they seem to both age and have been around for 2,000 years, so they must regenerate somehow.

Yeah, they might use the Ellen thing well - it's got potential from here on in. But I just feel after the four revealed before, it's a bit of an anticlimax. But then perhaps it's more important for the choice to stimulate the story rather than be a change in perspective on stuff that's gone before.

I'm not sure Baltar says he's not running the tests; I think Six just comments that everyone passes these days. It's true we never see him running any more after Ellen's except Sharon's. But that's not the point - Six, in 'Tigh Me Up Tigh Me Down', asks Baltar what Ellen's results actually said - and he said, "I'll never tell.". That kind of implies he knows.

BTW, interview with Ron Moore about Ellen as the Final Cylon, which does seem to suggest it's for real... at http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/en...ualla-dee-.html

[ColonialMarine]

I think RDM is throwing red herrings at us re: Ellen being a cylon..

We shall see.

[Aphrodite]

I just read the link (along with the two in the article itself) that Ellen is indeed the fifth Cylon. Kate said in the article that she'd been sitting on that secret for two years.

[cloudsclear]

Ellen definitely returning in person and reuniting with Saul - http://www.accesshollywood.com/dish-of-sal...on_video_940001

Hmmm... she says that Saul and Ellen are 'hybrids' and when asked "Cylons In Love?" she says 'we're half and half'. Verbal slip or are the Cylons on Earth hybrids...?

[teknobug5]

That's funny cause I had a theory about Ellen a while back, I just didn't know it would come true! I think people are disapointed with the fifth because she's not a strong character. But I'm glad she's coming back.

As for Dee, I believe she killed herself when she was happy knowing it could be the last time she'd be that happy ever again. I'm actually shocked that there weren't any other suicides in this episode. Maybe next...

Poor Starbuck, can't be more screwed.. Between not knowing what you are and knowing that you are a cylon, I'd choose the latter.

Finally, I'm still a big frakking fan of BSG! Wououhhh!

[MaGnUs]

Good episode... I think I know what's going on: EVERYBODY IS A CYLON.... There's no 12 models, there's just Cylons....

[maneth]

Indeed. And humans nuking the planet cylons called Earth would make perfect sense.